How to be useless

Petari · 09-02-2023, 10:28:25

Chaos it is
Really ? It seems that it gets dumber and dumber. It was pretty much clear what thread starter asked, despite not so good English - but smartheads must to ask about using my hard disk adapt - while thread starter talked about floppy images .
All what they can to do is:
General answer, prejudices.
Or in case of pirate to recommend own old cracks. Because what they did is surely the best, flawless ...

And it is year 2022. And Atari ST machines are very old. And SW, game's code is not perfect.
I had some talk with JY about not starting, freezing problem by some games. It is present in many, count can be about 50. In some cases it happens when moving mouse, pressing some key, joystick in intro stage (may be with music, some animation) - so there are advice to wait until it ends. But by some it just happens sometimes.
The reason is not so good IKBD, MFP code (intelligent keyboard (what reads mouse and joystick too), (multi function peripheral - special Motorola chip for computers with 68000) - in some cases it just becomes unresponsive on input devices. And culprit for bad code is partially Atari self - they never made good and detailed enough documentation for how to do code for it.
And age of Ataris helps not, so I'm sure that there will be more and more problems like this.
But will those at AF be aware about that factor ? Why should ? It is easier to write how PPs 'cracks' destroy data on hard disks and like. Morons. They did not learn anything in last 15 years.
Usage of some Atari ST is now different than in floppy era, by 90 % of current users. Floppies are too unreliable, including drives. But not only drives, machines becoming less reliable. There will be more and more problems - like computer works, but some SW, games not, or with problems.
And I did not say anything new. This is known problem of electronic. Actually, Atari STs are better in it than average.
Not liking to spread bad news, but: this may be last decade of massive usage of old Atari ST and compatibles. There will be more and more problems, failures, needs for repair, components. Ah, and money for all it. Solutions are already here.
And for those wanting all it in same way as was in 80-es: possible. Just will cost a lot. Nothing new. It is so with old cars and many other things.

Petari · 25-02-2023, 11:42:54

https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=39539
About 15 replies, and in many cases answers were not strict, there was mentioning of diverse SW, but without knowing it's really capabilities.
Then, there was someone talking about having 500 GB drives, so partitions sizes of 512 MB, 2 GB are not good for him - and all it with Atari ST, TT ...
Well, what he wants to store and run from those disks, on Ataris old 30+ years ? Some movie player, and like 5 GB long MKV video files ? Surely, then FAT32 is what is needed. Not really - only EFAT32 can deal with files over 4 GB. Someone mentioned NTFS ?

What I can say is that 32 GB is certainly enough for some old Atari. And we are about that can not find easy smaller capacity new Flash cards. Prices are low. Using classic hard disk with old Atari ? Well, only if you have it all already, and it works well.
I remember that tried my 160 GB IDE driver with Mint some 10-12 years ago, and there were problems with FAT32 partitions of larger sizes (what would be today smaller ones) . Don't know about how is with newer versions. In any case, ST, STE and even Falcon is just too slow and limited with RAM too for FAT32 .
So, even with OS capable to work with FAT32 it will be just too slow.
Not to mention that Atari ST SW is not needing FAT32, and LFN will make extra problems.
All it is known well, but great AF and AA like silly discussions - where no one with some better knowledge participates, and with good reason - idiot admins don't care about knowledge, wasting time .
I will not go there next some 6 months . Curiosity kills the mood

Petari · 02-03-2023, 11:31:41

And more:
https://forums.atariage.com/topic/348830-archiving-st-copy-protected-st-disks-w-greeseweasle/
No reply yet. Nobody from people active there bought/built such ? Or it is really not so good for ST floppies ?
What I can say is about writing images to floppies - Greeseweasle should be able to do it, and all usual image formats - ST - what is just raw floppy sector content image, maybe MSA (but can convert to ST format easily) and some flux formats. Matter of firmware and SW .
And of course if have floppy drives with older PC possible too. But needs SW. I made such for Windows, and it is known. But of course those at atariage will not do it, because I'm a monster - said 'shallow' to some there. And that matters, not helping. Yeah, forums are for ego, not to share experience, knowledge.
And all it is really not complicated. Best is to do write with real Ataris, but that needs solving transfer of image files from PC to Atari - some Flash card adapter is good and not expensive way - to work as hard disk and for easy transfers using USB reader.
Anyone can write here little about his experiences with Greeseweasle ?

Petari · 12-04-2023, 10:17:46

MugUK never disappoints:
In thread at AF 'games on a hard drive' he answered: "If you've got an SD card solution (i.e. UltraSatan or a SCSI-SD adapter if you have a MegaSTE) or an IDE-CF adapter (Falcon and above) then it's as simple as downloading the patched games and running them from the hard-drive partition that you've copied them to from a PC or a Mac."
What to say ? Complete moron, and his answer missing important details. Not to mention that some people still using classic hard disks and there are other solutions for mass storage with Atari ST family. Then IDE-CF can work with some ST, STE, TT ... Ah, maybe he thinks that they are above Falcon :-))
Then, saying 'patched games' - there are patched games for: work on all TOS versions, patched some game bugs ...
Point is not in 'patch' but in making game to be able to run from hard disk/Flash card (but in hard disk compatible mode, using TOS-es FAT16 filesystem handler) . Some may just try some ST images with hard drive :-)
What btw. even can work in smaller %-age of case, but not with any hard disk driver :-)

Petari · 23-04-2023, 10:13:45

And useless replies with false claims just go on ...
"As it is writing to the disk that corrupts the data, the change needs to done to the hard disk driver. (TOS 2.06 has a DMAwrite routine in ROM, that would require changing, too; but it's almost never used.)" . Written by czietz - interesting care about rutine in ROM timing, but what about support for drives/Flash cards over 1 GB capacity ?
" can imagine that you're observing an entirely unrelated problem that also manifests itself in data corruption. For example, I've seen an Ultrasatan that repeatedly corrupted the data on the SD card regardless of the machine. (Also on STFs and a TT.)" - also from czietz .
Data corruption happens in 99% cases because of SD card not good for Ultrasatan. And UltraSatan can be problem too ..
Using long writes to DMA chip is usual way, and yes, it is present in TOS too. It is actually not long write, only instruction is it. That's splitted in 2 parts, and writes to 2 HW registers (in fact only 1-1 byte). Surely not possible at once with 16 bit data bus . Same on TT. And if you look DMA chip pins - it has only 8 bit data.
All it is visible in HW DOCs . Now, doing it with splitted commands so using 2 write commands instead 1 long will have little more pause between 2 writes to DMA registers, because second opcode fetch time. That should not affect timing of signals self. Well, there may be need for some delay between two writes in some cases . More in cases of preparing DMA write than DMA read ? As I remember bad DMA in STE had errors in reading too - not my experience, I never had STE 'bad DMA' chip at me.
My experience is fine with long writes on all Ataris and DMA chip versions. Not sure how it is in TOS 3.06 , but it is very similar to 2.06 so ... Well, actually even saying long writes is wrong - it is just command what uses long data, in fact it's 2 writes in row.

Other thread: AF - Atari falldown
There is my page about how to do it: Atari properly
Of course, they at AF will not link it. They like mess, lies and not really helping people.
And it seems that it just getting worse ...

Petari · 26-04-2023, 09:14:41

And for change little from AA: "The MV16, produced by the ST adoring French, is the single most important cartridge for the ST ever released. Coming in at approximately £10-15 to improve the YM2149 horrible sound chip for a Macintosh killing 1986 520STM 16bit home computer it shows how clueless Atari were to not do exactly the same thing before 1 million Amigas had been sold (1989?) to stay in the fight. It's a simple case of a publisher improving of the substandard audio hardware that ultimately killed sales of the STFM. "
This is in thread 'What do you use your cartridge port for?' .
Well, really 'objective' and 'surely' based on 'extensive research', 'known facts' ...
MV16 was included with game BAT, partially as better sound generator HW, partially for copy protection.
I did not hear some large improvement in sound quality. Well, maybe my ears, equipment is not that good, but it stay for most of Atari ST users. Just because some are obsessed with sound, and expect some specific tone they can not come with silly talk: like that YM killed sales of Atari ST :-) I'm sure that until 1989 more than million Amigas were sold. And when we are at 1989 and sound - that's when Atari STE is released. With DMA sound (ala Amiga), and what happened - it was barely used in SW, games. Even worse is case of Falcon and it's DSP - good for sound on high level. Sales were pretty low. So, it is clear that only small % of Atari ST family users was interested for sound in first place. Or MIDI, to add.
Will write it again, and it is well known thing: Atari ST was designed as multi purpose computer, with low price for what it offers. There are diverse compromises - for instance YM chip is used for some floppy lines control too. I still see ST HW design as very good for it's time. And think that SW design (TOS) was not on that level.

Petari · 10-05-2023, 08:52:02

And another thread, where people rather blaming TOS than the real problem - using PC floppy drives on Atari ST without needed mod: https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=42641
Yes, it happens when they ignore pages done ... hmm 17 years ago : PC floppy drive fix for Atari ST

Petari · 07-06-2023, 08:53:32

Quote from thread at atariage (ACSI2STM): "I have a board in design that is based on the design from the project https://github.com/retro16/acsi2stm that is just about done if anyone is interested. I have also tested it with the new 4.0 firmware. It supports acsi and gemdos sd cards. "

Good example of shallowness. acsi (ACSI correct) is not SD card type, as GEMDOS is not it too. Really huge mixing up of terms. But it goes on and on over decades, and do Atari forums help in clarifying things. Nope - they ban those who try to do it - because they are not polite :-)
Well, I'm gonna be non polite and explain it:
ACSI is abbrev. of Atari Computer Systems (can be Storage too) Interface . Developed for fast data transfers with peripherals - hard disks in first place. Decades before SD cards. No wonder you can not insert SD card in ACSI port

GEMDOS is in fact Atari STs disk operating system. Designed with compatibility with PC DOS in mind (DRI had his DOS for PC too in that time). So, even low Endian number format is used (called Intel format too - reversed high and low bytes). But unfortunately it is not fully DOS compatible, only up to 32 MB partition size. Hard disk MBR format is different too.

Petari · 07-06-2023, 08:59:18

This is from masteries : " Omniflop software can read and write almost all type of floppies,
it can read copy-protected floppies and replicate these protections too: ... "

Part about being able to replicate copy protections is not correct for sure. That's just not possible with ordinary floppy controller chips used by computers. Actually, PCs floppy controller can not even read all used Atari floppy formats, without copy protections - i wrote about that long time ago on my site: like hyperformat (11 sec/tr), some special formats with short gaps between sectors ...
And if there were true, why devices like KryoFlux and SPC were made ?

Petari · 19-06-2023, 08:40:32

From the thread with subject "just bought an UltraSatan" (AA), "did i make the right purchase or would ACSI2STM or SD4ST have been fine? there wasn't a clear answer with a quick google search. " :

"Expert' reply:
"There shouldn't be any major differences between the three devices, all of them act as an interface between the ST and the physical media.
That said, Ultrasatan is probably the fastest of them in terms of throughput (at least that was the case last time I checked) and has battery backed RTC (but then again probably so do the others). "

Well, initial question is just typically simplification of thing. Not really possible to give proper answer without knowing some details.
Right purchase ? best ? - that's not so simple.
But even then, those at AA, who think that they know things and give answer - well, the level is really low. Should at least write about whit what 'media' which adapter works. And it is really simple and short: SD card (US), micro SD card (ACSI2STM and SD4ST). And is not bad to add that all them support HC SD cards - unlike Satandisk. And use ICD protocol (important for driver SW), so can over 1 GB .
UltraSatan and SD4ST have battery baked RTC, what is extra function, not really related with storage.
Considering speed: yes UltraSatan is fastest, but not big difference, plus speed depends from used SD card too.

Petari · 30-06-2023, 08:31:14

Thread at AA "ST/STe compatibility question" :
"
" The main source of incompatibility is the TOS version.
There are much more titles that work on an ST with TOS 1.0, and don't work with TOS 1.4 (or even TOS 1.2); than titles that work on an ST with TOS 1.4 but not on an STE.

That is why I hated to send my 520 to Atari for the 520fm 'upgrade'. I figured the original (with TOS 1.0) would be like the original Atari 800 and run a lot more than the later machines/TOS versions. "

Pretty bad formulation. 'Source' ? Should say reason rather. Source is bad programming, not so good Atari documentation. Funnily biggest part of TOS version incompatibility causes not working controls - joystick in first place. STOS for instance. But some problems are just because TOS is on different address at STE (STOS included). That would be not just TOS version problem but HW design difference. Even more colors on STE can be a problem for some game code (Deffender of the Crown), and more screen related HW registers . But all it could be avoided with better code and better knowledge about HW.

And of course nobody at AA mentions that most of problematic games are fixed for STE and DL-able on my site.
I guess some like more to hate than to do something good for community.

Petari · 15-08-2023, 19:02:50

They have no clue
Well, this is worse than being useless.
All knowledge is to try this, try that driver, and like. In case of hardware error or bad config driver change will not help. And nobody mentioned well know disk size limits for Atari ACSI port - well, even ACSI port was not mentioned.

Another one: TOS 1.00 and UltraSatan
First reply by Tillek - 'bad DMA' in early STs - never heard or saw it. Confusion about partition size limits.
And of course, usual blah about how some driver SW works much better than other - what exists, but their criterias are usually obsolete. Or they just don't read manuals (thread starter obviously).
All it is surely not simple, but at least try to stay at know facts, terminology.

Petari · 22-09-2023, 08:34:44

And more threads without really proper answers/help:
Atariage wisdom
First to clarify what is boot from floppy: strictly it means executing floppy's bootsector if it contains valid code and checksum. Lot of games start that way, and those without regular files can start only that way.
But usually boot from floppy means that there will be something loaded from floppy, what determines further behavior, Desktop look, content. All TOS versions have following order during boot (after reset, power on):
booting from floppy (normally A:), then booting from hard disk, executing AUTO folder's PRG files - and it will be from A: in case of not booting hard disk driver, or from C: if hard disk driver is on.
Next one is loading DESKTOP.INF (or NEWDESK.INF) from boot partition (A or C) and setting desktop according to it's content. At TOS 1.04 there is option to run automatically some PRG/TOS when it is marked as AUTO in DESKTOP.INF .

The answer on thread question: all better hard disk drivers have option to exit without setting up driver. It is usually Alt key pressed during it's boot. Then boot will continue as there is no hard disk attached.
If no such option, better forget that driver and get something better - up to date, TOS/DOS compatible partitions etc ...

Petari · 13-10-2023, 16:26:53

Hdd solution for playing games
Sure, HDDriver (Seimet) is 'defacto standard' - for those who want problems in many cases. That driver tends to set too much RAM for buffers, what results in problems for game starters.
Not to mention that it costs pretty much . Hmm... maybe that's why DarkLord recommends it ? Let's sell expensive stuff, even if it does not task best, but he is good with it's author. This are such times.
Not any hard disk adapter requires specific TOS version. I did read all kind of posts where is obvious that most of people have no clue how hard disk SW, HW works. Communication with hard disk or Flash card always goes on very low level - computer gives command and then parameters. Main commands are read and write, after what need to give exact address of sector(s) on disk/media/card and count of them (all them are in one block, of course). Disk, adapters don't 'know' to witch partition those sectors belong. It is task of OS (TOS by Ataris).
Simbo (was active at AF earlier) claimed that Satandisk deals with files, partitions. When I wrote that maybe someone who wrote hard disk driver SW knows that, those things better he still stayed by that ridiculous claim. So it goes by many self declared experts.

Petari · 16-10-2023, 11:08:30

And they read this, it seems. Darklord added some post, where he clarifies :-)
Then of course Tillek had something to say: "HDDriver is great. It's a far more professional package, with great support. The author won't call you "stoopid" for asking questions. Uwe is a great asset to the community. "
Interesting - I never saw Uwe Seimet on any Atari forum. Maybe banned ? :-) So, I don't give professional package, good support. I only know to insult people . Sure, when something is very stupid I call it stoopid. And will say it clearly. Will then persona get insulted - that's on his level of self awareness, education. Instead getting offended may think little about seld, and what can do better. Btw. Tillek forgot to mention that I called him 'shallow' - well, maybe because he again and again proves that he is it.
Now I need to work on myself. How to become really good 'asset'

Adding new features to driver SW is not good for community. Who needs Virtual Floppy, LFN filtering, automatic drive icon creation for TOS 1.00-1.62 ? All those pages on my site about TOS, hard disk handling and others. No, all it is only my lack of assetity :-)
Tillek, you are not only shallow, but moron. Don't see what is in front from you.