Author Topic: Cartridge port IDE IF design finished (project CATA)  (Read 15118 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Petari

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 2
  • -Receive: 56
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 609
  • Country: 00
After long time it is now capable for reliable work on ST, STE machines, with CF cards, IDE hard disks and even CD ROM drives (but it will need driver too) .

Some + details here :  http://atari.8bitchip.info/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_Pi9gSJdYo

If interested for, please post here or send e-mail.  Need to know amount of interested people before starting production.
« Last Edit: 09-09-2010, 14:17:40 by Petari »


Offline Shredder11

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 6
  • -Receive: 1
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 13
  • Gender: Male
    • Atari Music Network
Re: Cartridge port IDE IF design finished (project CATA)
« Reply #1 on: 09-09-2010, 22:29:38 »
The speed is awesome!

Offline Anemos

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 16
  • -Receive: 6
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 167
  • Country: gr
  • Gender: Male
    • Flashback Computing
Re: Cartridge port IDE IF design finished (project CATA)
« Reply #2 on: 13-09-2010, 00:53:15 »
Very interest! Atari HD via cartridge port?  :o
can be using with all HD drivers ,or has special drivers
is bootable also ect..?
how GB CF support?
no extra power needed ?
tell more..  ;)
My system: Atari STE 4MB, OS: SuperTOS 2.06, HD: US/disk 4gb SDcard ,ppera v0.98 HD drivers, USB mouse adapter by me, PSX controller joy adapter by me,  full list of adaption,s games by Petari.
Second Atari machine: 1040 STF
Other: 2X Lilliput Atari 130 XE

Offline Petari

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 2
  • -Receive: 56
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 609
  • Country: 00
Re: Cartridge port IDE IF design finished (project CATA)
« Reply #3 on: 13-09-2010, 11:26:07 »
Very interest! Atari HD via cartridge port?  :o
can be using with all HD drivers ,or has special drivers
is bootable also ect..?
how GB CF support?
no extra power needed ?
tell more..  ;)

Idea is not new. Paskud was the first cartridge port IDE IF for Atari ST.
On site is some info, but I will write here, maybe in more understandable way :

Forget other HD drivers - only with special driver for it - there is no standard/specs for using cartridge port for mass storage, it is even not intended for writing data out, only for reading in.

Paskud has own driver SW, partitioner etc.  too , just to add.

It is bootable in little different way than regular hard disks (ACSI/IDE) - autoboot is solved via SW in cartridge ROMs. It executes before regular disk booting, even before floppy boot. On all TOS versions. So, no need for TOS 2.06 when using IDE ( Benefit #1 )

No capacity limit - driver can handle disks up to 2048 GB (it is partition table limit in fact).
So, any CF, even 32-64 GB will work, if you have money to buy it :)

No need for extra power supply, as cartridge port gets power from ST (Benefit #2 )

Benefit #3 : speed - much faster than Paskud, especially by write. See pic on site.
In combination with Kobold 2 it is killer !

See on YouTube:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D2aWwxpk6U
« Last Edit: 13-09-2010, 13:09:28 by Petari »

Offline Anemos

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 16
  • -Receive: 6
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 167
  • Country: gr
  • Gender: Male
    • Flashback Computing
Re: Cartridge port IDE IF design finished (project CATA)
« Reply #4 on: 13-09-2010, 20:59:56 »
If understand.. it works like a large cartridge hardware emulator that you can intervene and change the files via CF.
It remains interesting,  but the not writable directly by Atari, is not good...
at last..i think all your work,s is very good and benefit for Atari and users.
My system: Atari STE 4MB, OS: SuperTOS 2.06, HD: US/disk 4gb SDcard ,ppera v0.98 HD drivers, USB mouse adapter by me, PSX controller joy adapter by me,  full list of adaption,s games by Petari.
Second Atari machine: 1040 STF
Other: 2X Lilliput Atari 130 XE

Offline Petari

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 2
  • -Receive: 56
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 609
  • Country: 00
Re: Cartridge port IDE IF design finished (project CATA)
« Reply #5 on: 14-09-2010, 13:43:40 »
If understand.. it works like a large cartridge hardware emulator that you can intervene and change the files via CF.
It remains interesting,  but the not writable directly by Atari, is not good...
at last..i think all your work,s is very good and benefit for Atari and users.

It is not cartridge emulator. It is full IDE compliant (supporting all IDE features) adapter/interface.
I just mentioned that cartridge port is not intended for writes - but it means not that writing is impossible. I made long time ago EPROM programmer for cart. port. And writing is a must by such device, isn't ? Usually, writing is slower than reading, but in case of CATA it is very fast.
".. but the not writable directly by Atari, is not good..."  don't know why you talk about not writeable directly.  Better is to say that Atari designed cart. port without writing support. Actually, CATA writes very directly via cart port, and it explains high speed.
 Because of easier usage (to avoid opening machine, solderings) there is demand to use cart port for diverse adapters, so CaTA is just one among many, who solved it. Examples:  USB/serial port for cartridge. Digitizer , some audio stuff ...
More info:  usually, writing out is solved by using address lines as data. There is even some article on WEB, where it is explained in details.  Fact that Atari did not support writing via cart. port means not that it is unreliable or whatever. And we know that many times third party developers surpassed original manufacturer. Remember ICD ?

P.S. I start new topic here, where will write some principles of mass storage, interfaces used for ..
« Last Edit: 15-09-2010, 13:19:00 by Petari »

Offline Anemos

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 16
  • -Receive: 6
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 167
  • Country: gr
  • Gender: Male
    • Flashback Computing
Re: Cartridge port IDE IF design finished (project CATA)
« Reply #6 on: 15-09-2010, 22:53:58 »
ok, nice! we wait to see some photos of your new project,lot of people wait for some new, HD for Atari!

My system: Atari STE 4MB, OS: SuperTOS 2.06, HD: US/disk 4gb SDcard ,ppera v0.98 HD drivers, USB mouse adapter by me, PSX controller joy adapter by me,  full list of adaption,s games by Petari.
Second Atari machine: 1040 STF
Other: 2X Lilliput Atari 130 XE

Offline Petari

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 2
  • -Receive: 56
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 609
  • Country: 00
Re: Cartridge port IDE IF design finished (project CATA)
« Reply #7 on: 17-09-2010, 19:38:40 »
Photos will be when PCB is manufactured. Then can assemble and shot. Prototype is not nice.

Something bothered me already when made first test version:  writing is much faster than read. I knew that same principle as by writing is not possible by reading without some changes in Atari ST(E). This days I thinkered about. The solution is in fact pretty simple, and costs almost nothing.
Need to cut 1 line in machine and solder 2 wires there, and lead them out. Those 2 wire ends connect to special connector on CATA and that's all plus work/material. If not using CATA must shortcut that 2 wire ends, of course - can be solved automatically with proper connector.

I plan this as option. So, only speed fanatics may go on with. For others it will work well, without opening machine. In driver config file will be set to use or not the extra reading speed.



This is reading speed via driver. Direct access speed should be around 2400 KB/sec. But so far no support in speed test program for it.
« Last Edit: 17-09-2010, 19:40:18 by Petari »

Offline jvas

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 3
  • -Receive: 2
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 13
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cartridge port IDE IF design finished (project CATA)
« Reply #8 on: 18-09-2010, 14:28:01 »
Very impressive  :D

Thorsten Günther

  • Guest
Re: Cartridge port IDE IF design finished (project CATA)
« Reply #9 on: 12-12-2010, 11:18:36 »
Any data yet on projected prices and date of availability?

Depending on the price tag, I will order some CATAs, and I guess there's many more buyers if it becomes available - you might ask on atari-home.de forum, e.g..

Thorsten

Offline Shredder11

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 6
  • -Receive: 1
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 13
  • Gender: Male
    • Atari Music Network
Re: Cartridge port IDE IF design finished (project CATA)
« Reply #10 on: 12-12-2010, 12:33:23 »
Yep I am interested in the interface too, although not sure yet how many I would like/afford.

Offline Petari

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 2
  • -Receive: 56
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 609
  • Country: 00
Re: Cartridge port IDE IF design finished (project CATA)
« Reply #11 on: 13-12-2010, 15:06:42 »
Working on it ... I will put all infos here when will know concrete details ...

Thorsten Günther

  • Guest
Re: Cartridge port IDE IF design finished (project CATA)
« Reply #12 on: 13-12-2010, 20:28:54 »
Thanks!

Hope it will be soon, this thing is even sexier than the UltraSatan because it needs no PSU (I hope you'll be going for a CF version).

Will you produce it yourself or ask some of the hardware producers in Eastern Europe (e.g. Lotharek or MiKro) to do the dirty (and tedious) work?

Any chance that CATA will get a case?


Regards,

Thorsten


Offline johnz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 0
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 30
Re: Cartridge port IDE IF design finished (project CATA)
« Reply #13 on: 29-12-2010, 11:51:14 »
hello

a very interesting ide interface. if one day you product the item for sell i will be interested in buying one for my falcon.

Offline Petari

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 2
  • -Receive: 56
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 609
  • Country: 00
Re: Cartridge port IDE IF design finished (project CATA)
« Reply #14 on: 29-12-2010, 13:31:07 »
a very interesting ide interface. if one day you product the item for sell i will be interested in buying one for my falcon.
Unfortunately it works not really good on Falcon - because of different bus timings. Only read is good, writing not.
Not to mention that you have already IDE IF with Falcon, so need only some cable and IDE-CF adapter to work with Compact Flash.