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#71
Software / How stupid programmers can be ...
Last post by Petari - 14-12-2024, 16:00:43 I saw this kind of text supplied with some Atari ST SW many times, and I'm sure that others saw such too :
"I don't know of any bugs in this program, however if it screws up
your system please do not start moaning at me: I disclaim all
responsibility for anything that it may do."
Huh ! Let see this using some shallowless thinking: What is system (letter S in TOS, OS) by running Atari ST SW ?
How can something in ROM be screwed by some SW ? Hahaha ... Or maybe this programmer meant some HW failure ? Really, in my now 41 years long experience with home computers I did not see any HW damage caused by SW - talking about Sinclair Spectrum, what I bought in 1983 and Atari ST at 1987 . And in those years I repaired looot of C64 - non of failures were caused by SW, most of it was by bad HW design, something less by low quality components. My later experience in repairing PCs was exactly the same .
Worst thing what can happen is damaging SW on floppy from which SW is running.
Hard disk run (not typical in those years) ? - normal SW can not damage whole partitions and like. Can delete some files and like. What damages partitions is kind of virus. Were such made for Atari ST ? I don't know about it. Was lot of viruses damaging floppy content - way not so harmful as damaging hard disk content.
So, whole blah was really just kind of self defense for all maybe oncoming cases. Or in my knowledge - admitting of 'how little knowledge I have :-) ' - but I want to be programmer. Well, at most of them it did not last long.
And yes, there were many other things which did not know about Atari ST SW programming. Partially because they did not take effort to read Atari ST DOCs, in much less part because Atari self did not make/publish enough precise, detailed DOCs .
And why I write all this at end of 2024 ? Because I needed to fix really plenty of Atari ST programs, so they can work from hard disks (pardon, SD cards), all TOS versions . Most of it could be not necessary with more serious approach of involved ones .
"I don't know of any bugs in this program, however if it screws up
your system please do not start moaning at me: I disclaim all
responsibility for anything that it may do."
Huh ! Let see this using some shallowless thinking: What is system (letter S in TOS, OS) by running Atari ST SW ?
How can something in ROM be screwed by some SW ? Hahaha ... Or maybe this programmer meant some HW failure ? Really, in my now 41 years long experience with home computers I did not see any HW damage caused by SW - talking about Sinclair Spectrum, what I bought in 1983 and Atari ST at 1987 . And in those years I repaired looot of C64 - non of failures were caused by SW, most of it was by bad HW design, something less by low quality components. My later experience in repairing PCs was exactly the same .
Worst thing what can happen is damaging SW on floppy from which SW is running.
Hard disk run (not typical in those years) ? - normal SW can not damage whole partitions and like. Can delete some files and like. What damages partitions is kind of virus. Were such made for Atari ST ? I don't know about it. Was lot of viruses damaging floppy content - way not so harmful as damaging hard disk content.
So, whole blah was really just kind of self defense for all maybe oncoming cases. Or in my knowledge - admitting of 'how little knowledge I have :-) ' - but I want to be programmer. Well, at most of them it did not last long.
And yes, there were many other things which did not know about Atari ST SW programming. Partially because they did not take effort to read Atari ST DOCs, in much less part because Atari self did not make/publish enough precise, detailed DOCs .
And why I write all this at end of 2024 ? Because I needed to fix really plenty of Atari ST programs, so they can work from hard disks (pardon, SD cards), all TOS versions . Most of it could be not necessary with more serious approach of involved ones .
#72
FAQ / Why Atari ST was less popular ...
Last post by Petari - 12-12-2024, 14:23:38 Yes, this is frequently asked question.
My opinion is that there were really multiple factors involved.
History of Atari company - of course, known for game consoles - home and public ones, games, then 8-bit home computers, which were more oriented for game playing than some serious usage - very simple Basic for instance. Additionally, Jack Tramiel was founder and long time main man in Commodore, what was also mostly game computer manufacturer (C64 in first part, most sold). Some may not liking that was from Canada.
1985 - there were already GUI computers on Market - Apple Mac was pretty popular, despite high price. Windows first versions appeared too. And there was DRI . Then, there was big financial help for those students which bought Apple computer.
It was certainly good idea to go on 16-bit, GUI machine. And by me good idea was to make it universal, so good for all types of SW . With interfaces for then actual, oncoming peripherals. Mass storage too.
And here comes one of biggest flaws, by me : no universal expansion port . That was present on most of 8-biters. It came first with Mega ST , then with TT, Mega ST, Falcon - and all of it was different.
OS: done by DRI, actually kind of GEM for PC GUI port, then part dealing with disk/file operations - for floppies, hard disks, so FAT12, FAT16 . It was made DOS compatible, including Intel byte order (low, high) . But compatibility was not complete - in case of floppies it was format what was not compatible, later versions little better - well, by me not real flaw, as there were diverse format programs for floppies available for free too - myself wrote such too. But such details certainly distracted some potential buyers.
Hard disk support - complex story. It evolved in later TOS versions, but not as much as could. My opinion is that main culprit was DRI C compiler for 68000 CPU . Compatibility with then already wide used DOS partitions was just partial, and worse than in case of floppies. After 1991 that should be better.
Price factor: indeed Atari ST had very good power/price ratio, what was part of adverts too ... I think that that was more motivating for European buyers. And USD was then with pretty high exchange ratio too .
My opinion is that there were really multiple factors involved.
History of Atari company - of course, known for game consoles - home and public ones, games, then 8-bit home computers, which were more oriented for game playing than some serious usage - very simple Basic for instance. Additionally, Jack Tramiel was founder and long time main man in Commodore, what was also mostly game computer manufacturer (C64 in first part, most sold). Some may not liking that was from Canada.
1985 - there were already GUI computers on Market - Apple Mac was pretty popular, despite high price. Windows first versions appeared too. And there was DRI . Then, there was big financial help for those students which bought Apple computer.
It was certainly good idea to go on 16-bit, GUI machine. And by me good idea was to make it universal, so good for all types of SW . With interfaces for then actual, oncoming peripherals. Mass storage too.
And here comes one of biggest flaws, by me : no universal expansion port . That was present on most of 8-biters. It came first with Mega ST , then with TT, Mega ST, Falcon - and all of it was different.
OS: done by DRI, actually kind of GEM for PC GUI port, then part dealing with disk/file operations - for floppies, hard disks, so FAT12, FAT16 . It was made DOS compatible, including Intel byte order (low, high) . But compatibility was not complete - in case of floppies it was format what was not compatible, later versions little better - well, by me not real flaw, as there were diverse format programs for floppies available for free too - myself wrote such too. But such details certainly distracted some potential buyers.
Hard disk support - complex story. It evolved in later TOS versions, but not as much as could. My opinion is that main culprit was DRI C compiler for 68000 CPU . Compatibility with then already wide used DOS partitions was just partial, and worse than in case of floppies. After 1991 that should be better.
Price factor: indeed Atari ST had very good power/price ratio, what was part of adverts too ... I think that that was more motivating for European buyers. And USD was then with pretty high exchange ratio too .
#73
Software / Re: Atariausgabe releases 1-...
Last post by Ronald J. Hall - 12-12-2024, 02:29:44Okay, I switched the Pak 030 in the STacy down to 8mhz, TOS v1.04
compatibility mode and now they work.
You're right about it being a bit mixed. Some are mono and some are
color. I didn't try every single one but went through a handful and
those were okay.
Thanks much!
compatibility mode and now they work.
You're right about it being a bit mixed. Some are mono and some are
color. I didn't try every single one but went through a handful and
those were okay.
Thanks much!
#74
Software / Re: New game adaptations
Last post by Petari - 11-12-2024, 19:20:42 New 7 GB image with over 2530 game DIRs is almost completed. Mail me at petari@8bitchip.info - this week very good conditions to get it. It is for TOS 1.04 and higher, now usual/popular SD cards adapters. IDE adapters too. TOS/DOS compatible partitions, game menu, search function ..
What is added can see in replies above here.
And added this days: Shocker 2, Kids Talk, Dungeons & Amethists, Atariausgabe 1-9 (with fixes), Espace ...
What is added can see in replies above here.
And added this days: Shocker 2, Kids Talk, Dungeons & Amethists, Atariausgabe 1-9 (with fixes), Espace ...
#75
Software / Re: Atariausgabe releases 1-...
Last post by Petari - 11-12-2024, 08:55:35HAGE adaptations do not support 68030 CPU . Plus, in this case individual games should be corrected for it, and there is 7 of them. And even if they work, big part of them would run too fast. I needed to add special TT slowdown code in many games.
#76
Software / Re: Atariausgabe releases 1-...
Last post by Ronald J. Hall - 10-12-2024, 18:24:22Quote from: Petari on 09-12-2024, 19:32:20TOS 3.06 on Stacy ? 3.06 is for TT. Isn't it 2.06 ?
Problem is probably in high RAM usage - like HDDriver set for very large buffers, some resident SW active.
And it works with TOS 2.06 well - 2 MB RAM min.
Well, it's because I've got a Pak 030 accelerator board in my STacy. So it's TOS v3.06, 40mhz 68030, 40mhz 68882 FPU, and I've got a STorm-ST board so I've got a total of 12 megs of RAM.
Surprisingly, most of your adapted games work with this setup. Well done.
When they don't, the Pak 030 has a "compatibility" mode that allows it to downshift to a regular 68000 at 8mhz, and TOS v1.04.
Anytime I've had problems (which are few and far between), I just switch to the compatibility mode and it usually works.
I've still not tried that yet with this release, I'll try to get to that later today and report back.
Thanks much!
#77
Software / Re: Atariausgabe releases 1-...
Last post by Petari - 09-12-2024, 19:32:20TOS 3.06 on Stacy ? 3.06 is for TT. Isn't it 2.06 ?
Problem is probably in high RAM usage - like HDDriver set for very large buffers, some resident SW active.
And it works with TOS 2.06 well - 2 MB RAM min.
Problem is probably in high RAM usage - like HDDriver set for very large buffers, some resident SW active.
And it works with TOS 2.06 well - 2 MB RAM min.
#78
Software / Re: Atariausgabe releases 1-...
Last post by Ronald J. Hall - 09-12-2024, 18:45:08Hmm, I downloaded this and tried it on my STacy. I ran both executable files and it always
rebooted the machine.
This is with TOS v3.06, Ultrasatan, with no ACC's or AUTO folder programs, hi-resolution.
I'll try it again today with TOS v1.04 and see what happens.
Thanks.
rebooted the machine.
This is with TOS v3.06, Ultrasatan, with no ACC's or AUTO folder programs, hi-resolution.
I'll try it again today with TOS v1.04 and see what happens.
Thanks.
#79
Software / Re: Terminator 2 freezes on Oc...
Last post by Petari - 09-12-2024, 09:41:33It may be because of aging of machine. Replacing electrolyte capacitors in PSU is strongly recommended, if that was not done in last years.
Is this now on same config as it was when worked well ? You may try with installing/unpacking it from ZIP to some other partition or rename existing one and unpack it again.
If above helped not please write details: what hard disk/Flash card adapter, what driver SW . Are there some resident programs installed which activate after reset ?
Is this now on same config as it was when worked well ? You may try with installing/unpacking it from ZIP to some other partition or rename existing one and unpack it again.
If above helped not please write details: what hard disk/Flash card adapter, what driver SW . Are there some resident programs installed which activate after reset ?
#80
Software / Atariausgabe releases 1-9
Last post by Petari - 07-12-2024, 18:35:06Found it at atarimania. Of course, games, mostly in German lang. And lot of it is for monochrome video mode (was popular in Germany). It uses not so well solved depacker, so I made it to start different way (no need for extra reset) . Also made unpacked floppy images - they are for HD floppies - capacity needed is in range 1 - 1.4 MB . And then it works well with half MB RAM in ST(R) . I guess that will work fine with Gotek - I'm sure that more people has it now than HD floppy drive with Atari ST(E) .
I needed to do file name corrections by 2 games. And there are 2 with missing file(s) - will see in list.
Atariausgabe 1-9 game list
1. Strategie Monochrome
Airline 5 M
Europa 5 M
Fussball 1 M
Hotel 2 5 M
Imperator 5 M
ImperiumOEL 5 M
Tresor 1 M
7 working games 5 with half MB RAM
2. Action SW Color
Azarian 5 J
Alien Blockade 5 J
Clowns 5 M
Durchbruch 5 M
Felder - missing exec !
Hacman 5 J
Master Hit (Speed Master) 5 J
No Name 1 J
PD Super 5 J
Star Battle PD 5 J
Trido 5 J
10 w games 9 with half MB RAM
3. Strategie Monochrome
12JHT 5 M
Anno1700 5 M
Drachen 5 M
Galactica 5 M
Metropol 5 M
Napoleon 1 M
Universum 5 K
Wagnis 5 M
Barbaren 5 M
Isola 5 M
Logiker 5 M
11 w games 10 with half MB RAM
4. Adventure Color
Arcturus 1 M
Moor 5 J
2 w games 1 with half MB RAM
5. Simulation - board games mostly Monochrome
4Gewinnt 5 M
Aerger 5 M
Disc 5 K
Explode 5 M
Glückrad 5 M
Gobang 5 M
Hangman 5 M
Kreuz As 5 M
Memory 5 M
Monopoly 1 M
Pool 5 MK
Roulette 5 M
Shanghei 5 M
Shogun 5 M
Stagger 5 M
Up&Down 5 M
Yatzy (Yachtsee) Eng. Dan. 5 M
Zarge 5 M
18 w. games 17 with half MB RAM
6. Economy SW Color
Avalun 2 5 M
Big Deal 1 5 M
Dallas 5 M
Match (Spaceball) 5 M
Tauris 1 M
Trainer M 5 Med.res.
Tri Yatz PF (Yachtsee) M 5 Med.res.
7 w. games 6 with half MB RAM
7. Action SW Esclusiv Monochrome
Baller 5 M
Bank Robbery 1 M
Bounce 5 J
Bumerang 5 M
Diamond 5 JM
Fire Set (Feuerwehr) 5 J
Invaders 5 KM
Killer - works not, file(s) missing
Macpan 5 JM
Megaroids 5 K
Monkey (Business) 5 JK
Mr Hüpf 5 MK (fixed)
Push 5 M
Tetris 5 K
13 w. games 12 with half MB RAM
8. Strategie Color
Adel 5 M Med.res.
Greece 5 M
Hotch Potch 5 M
Imperium 5 M
Mile Stone 5 M
Queboid 5 J
Top 20 5 K
Celest Engl. 5 M Med.res.
8 w. games 8 with half MB RAM
9 Adventure SW Exclusiv Color
Larn 5 K
Lost Civilisation 5 K
Mörder 5 M Monochrome (fixed)
Lords of Fate (the) 5 K Med. high res
Vault 1 5 K
Vault 2 5 K\
Vault 3 5 K
Zaubertrank 5 K Med. high res
8 w. games 8 with half MB RAM
Sum: 84 working games
76 works with half MB RAM . 8 needs min 1 MB RAM
Stays for versions not packed. Packed releases need mostly min 1 MB for all.
When running from floppy. Hard disk run needs 1 or 2 MB RAM min .
This will go in my new hard disk compil. Will add corrected floppy versions to my Atari ST Game Archive.
And idea is to make new selections - best color games on 1-2 floppies. And same with monochrome ones.
Suggestions are welcome .
You can try games with emulators, of course .
Here is HD v. of part 1 : Atariausgabe 1 for HD 2MB Ram min
I needed to do file name corrections by 2 games. And there are 2 with missing file(s) - will see in list.
Atariausgabe 1-9 game list
1. Strategie Monochrome
Airline 5 M
Europa 5 M
Fussball 1 M
Hotel 2 5 M
Imperator 5 M
ImperiumOEL 5 M
Tresor 1 M
7 working games 5 with half MB RAM
2. Action SW Color
Azarian 5 J
Alien Blockade 5 J
Clowns 5 M
Durchbruch 5 M
Felder - missing exec !
Hacman 5 J
Master Hit (Speed Master) 5 J
No Name 1 J
PD Super 5 J
Star Battle PD 5 J
Trido 5 J
10 w games 9 with half MB RAM
3. Strategie Monochrome
12JHT 5 M
Anno1700 5 M
Drachen 5 M
Galactica 5 M
Metropol 5 M
Napoleon 1 M
Universum 5 K
Wagnis 5 M
Barbaren 5 M
Isola 5 M
Logiker 5 M
11 w games 10 with half MB RAM
4. Adventure Color
Arcturus 1 M
Moor 5 J
2 w games 1 with half MB RAM
5. Simulation - board games mostly Monochrome
4Gewinnt 5 M
Aerger 5 M
Disc 5 K
Explode 5 M
Glückrad 5 M
Gobang 5 M
Hangman 5 M
Kreuz As 5 M
Memory 5 M
Monopoly 1 M
Pool 5 MK
Roulette 5 M
Shanghei 5 M
Shogun 5 M
Stagger 5 M
Up&Down 5 M
Yatzy (Yachtsee) Eng. Dan. 5 M
Zarge 5 M
18 w. games 17 with half MB RAM
6. Economy SW Color
Avalun 2 5 M
Big Deal 1 5 M
Dallas 5 M
Match (Spaceball) 5 M
Tauris 1 M
Trainer M 5 Med.res.
Tri Yatz PF (Yachtsee) M 5 Med.res.
7 w. games 6 with half MB RAM
7. Action SW Esclusiv Monochrome
Baller 5 M
Bank Robbery 1 M
Bounce 5 J
Bumerang 5 M
Diamond 5 JM
Fire Set (Feuerwehr) 5 J
Invaders 5 KM
Killer - works not, file(s) missing
Macpan 5 JM
Megaroids 5 K
Monkey (Business) 5 JK
Mr Hüpf 5 MK (fixed)
Push 5 M
Tetris 5 K
13 w. games 12 with half MB RAM
8. Strategie Color
Adel 5 M Med.res.
Greece 5 M
Hotch Potch 5 M
Imperium 5 M
Mile Stone 5 M
Queboid 5 J
Top 20 5 K
Celest Engl. 5 M Med.res.
8 w. games 8 with half MB RAM
9 Adventure SW Exclusiv Color
Larn 5 K
Lost Civilisation 5 K
Mörder 5 M Monochrome (fixed)
Lords of Fate (the) 5 K Med. high res
Vault 1 5 K
Vault 2 5 K\
Vault 3 5 K
Zaubertrank 5 K Med. high res
8 w. games 8 with half MB RAM
Sum: 84 working games
76 works with half MB RAM . 8 needs min 1 MB RAM
Stays for versions not packed. Packed releases need mostly min 1 MB for all.
When running from floppy. Hard disk run needs 1 or 2 MB RAM min .
This will go in my new hard disk compil. Will add corrected floppy versions to my Atari ST Game Archive.
And idea is to make new selections - best color games on 1-2 floppies. And same with monochrome ones.
Suggestions are welcome .
You can try games with emulators, of course .
Here is HD v. of part 1 : Atariausgabe 1 for HD 2MB Ram min