High-color video playback on STE

[paulwratt]

I also have  a 48 colors 400 pixels wide (fulscreen left/right/top&bottom) version, using blitter / STE only and I think I had a fullscreen version compliant with every ST but never used.

Cyg

Can you post both of that code also?

I'm looking for ideas for a game "display driver" that can do "hicolor", especially if it works on "every ST", and "400px wide".

Obviously I might end up with less colors than what you guys are getting/using, but I think what the two of you have done so far will give the solutions I need

thanx

Paul

[Petari]

I made 3 demos of contigous playback. All are 1 min, 320x160 px. May try in Steem or Hatari.

http://atari.8bitchip.info/Play1min.rar  - 40MB .
http://atari.8bitchip.info/HCPL.rar   -  36MB .
http://atari.8bitchip.info/avat.rar - 48MB .
First one was hardest to convert to PCS with acceptable quality.

Cyg: can we try with your hi-color system ? Will you send me encoding SW, or I should send you pictures ?

[petsasjim]

Hi,Iam Petsasjim1 (The Commenter From youtube Videos).
first to say again,i know nothing about "programming",but i am here as an only an old user(not only atari user),gamer who plays games mostly and searches "little deeper" for utilities and specifications in hardware (sometimes like to comparing things) (only as an simple user,gamer and not an programmer or hardware maker) (but also comparing things in software and hardware in any machine is my computer-consoles life - and also gaming is same thing of course)
I am  REALLY VERY IMPRESSED  for the 4 versions of your various Atari ste videos you offered and i downloaded them (also i read the instructions tou wrote),till now i was only expected this "whole video thing" only in an "atari falcon (dsp)"(ok,i know that falcon already plays vcd with dsp)
i tested with steem all videos but i test specific "avatar video" at least in all memories (4,2,1,512k) and it runs even in 2 mb memory exactly like 4mb memory and also even in 1mb and 512k (even with worse framerate).it is an unbeleivable thing for me.But now,i would like to ask some questions :::

1)supposed to be on an "atari ste,with 2 or 4 mb" and your "cartridge ide hardware" and with an "ide hard disk" will run all these videos "EXACTLY AT THE SAME SPEED" as on my "pc,(2 core,2.9 amd regor) steem" and my "common ntfs hard disk"? or may be on normal 2-4mb atari ste with "cartridge ide" dont have "so glorius" framerate as an "pc with steem"?
2)what is the file format of an ide which connected your "cartridge ide interface" on an real atari ste? (fat?)
3)i know that atari falcon plays video cd (vcd) with its "dsp".But i dont interesting to a converstion in "dsp" right now.so,could atari falcon with the same or other (enchanced) "ide cartridge" makes better video resolution? with better video colors palette? with also better framerate? or atari falcon could do "exactly the same" videos with the atari ste with that or even future enchanced ide hardware from you?
4)another question (sorry i have lots of questions).could an very small atari st/1e video (10 seconds) be saved in "ramdisk" and then with the help of an "utility" run "directly from ramdisk"? could it be possible? please tell me this.
5)is possible for atari ste machines to "wear" "dsp chip" with any modifications (and play video vcd -cheap 1990 table like later 1993 cdi vcd)

if this "cartrige ide" was back then in 1990 i think lots of things will happen.not only on atari industry (i cant imagine what would be happened),but also in "computers video formats" and general "cheap atari video table machines" all these in my opinion always.

last but no least,if you could make a "copyright (R)" for your "cartridge-ide peripheral cable or hardware and software" (i didnt see any photo of ide cartridge until now) for use for commercial purposes.

so,good luck in all your works.

[paulwratt]

@petari

BTW I got ur original archive videos to work fine in STEem, but not in Hatari (just started using it) - both on windows - try linux later

Paul

[Petari]

@petari

BTW I got ur original archive videos to work fine in STEem, but not in Hatari (just started using it) - both on windows - try linux later

Paul

You need to set GEMDOS hard disk emulation in Hatari - set DIR of PC where Atari files are as Atari GEMDOS drive (C) .

[Petari]

Hi,Iam Petsasjim1 (The Commenter From youtube Videos).
first to say again,i know nothing about "programming",but i am here as an only an old user(not only atari user),gamer who plays games mostly and searches "little deeper" for utilities and specifications in hardware (sometimes like to comparing things) (only as an simple user,gamer and not an programmer or hardware maker) (but also comparing things in software and hardware in any machine is my computer-consoles life - and also gaming is same thing of course)
I am  REALLY VERY IMPRESSED  for the 4 versions of your various Atari ste videos you offered and i downloaded them (also i read the instructions tou wrote),till now i was only expected this "whole video thing" only in an "atari falcon (dsp)"(ok,i know that falcon already plays vcd with dsp)
i tested with steem all videos but i test specific "avatar video" at least in all memories (4,2,1,512k) and it runs even in 2 mb memory exactly like 4mb memory and also even in 1mb and 512k (even with worse framerate).it is an unbeleivable thing for me.But now,i would like to ask some questions :::

1)supposed to be on an "atari ste,with 2 or 4 mb" and your "cartridge ide hardware" and with an "ide hard disk" will run all these videos "EXACTLY AT THE SAME SPEED" as on my "pc,(2 core,2.9 amd regor) steem" and my "common ntfs hard disk"? or may be on normal 2-4mb atari ste with "cartridge ide" dont have "so glorius" framerate as an "pc with steem"?
2)what is the file format of an ide which connected your "cartridge ide interface" on an real atari ste? (fat?)
3)i know that atari falcon plays video cd (vcd) with its "dsp".But i dont interesting to a converstion in "dsp" right now.so,could atari falcon with the same or other (enchanced) "ide cartridge" makes better video resolution? with better video colors palette? with also better framerate? or atari falcon could do "exactly the same" videos with the atari ste with that or even future enchanced ide hardware from you?
4)another question (sorry i have lots of questions).could an very small atari st/1e video (10 seconds) be saved in "ramdisk" and then with the help of an "utility" run "directly from ramdisk"? could it be possible? please tell me this.
5)is possible for atari ste machines to "wear" "dsp chip" with any modifications (and play video vcd -cheap 1990 table like later 1993 cdi vcd)

if this "cartrige ide" was back then in 1990 i think lots of things will happen.not only on atari industry (i cant imagine what would be happened),but also in "computers video formats" and general "cheap atari video table machines" all these in my opinion always.

last but no least,if you could make a "copyright (R)" for your "cartridge-ide peripheral cable or hardware and software" (i didnt see any photo of ide cartridge until now) for use for commercial purposes.

so,good luck in all your works.

Great ! You can write without capitals too :-) Falcon can play vcd ?  Well, I'm sure that can, but certainly not at it's resolution - 356 x 200 (240) or something like. It is just too demanding even with DSP. Actually, even MP3 stereo is even too much for DSP. I tried some players - they play at lover res and lover framerate. It is normal. and not fault of programmers. I remember from PC times arounf 1996 - then VCD playback was first possible. Requirement was min P1 class at 100MHz + local bus (PCI) video card with some playback support (much more than blitter does).

Those 'contigous' videos can play even with 512KB RAM.

1.  My goal is to playback at 25 fps and fullscreen of Atari STE, or at least close to it - like 320x160 - what is good for aspect ratio 16:9, currently most used. On real Atari STE. But it is just not possible with current hard disk speeds (if someone has solution, let me know).

Here you may DL video capture of playback on real STE:  http://atari.8bitchip.info/movpst.php

Cartridge IF + little mod in STE is required to get some very high hard disk reading speed. I will publish soon all docs for it. With it, and fast hard drive or even better Compact Flash card it can over 2.5 MB/sec via FAT16 filesys. And about 3 MB/sec in raw read. And it is enough for 25 fps at 320x160.

2. Cart. IF uses FAT16, and DOS/TOS compatible partitioning. TOS has limit of 512MB/partition.
For hi-color playback FAT16 is not good. It adds slowdowns, and 512MB limit may be problem too. Therefore, I will use raw disk access for it.
Just leave some space at end of drive, and write videos there. It is not elegant solution, but really don't see better.

3. This playback and format is not usable on Falcon or TT, because is based on accurate CPU timing.
On Falcon, 256 color playback is possible without bigger problems at 320x200 - only with IDE, what is faster than SCSI.

4. First 2 videos (links in this thread) made are exactly it - with Ramdisk . But no space for 10 secs.

5. DSP is not something with what we should deal in 2012. If you want some powerful add on for ST(E), choose something modern, and what is possible to buy.

6. Cartridge IDE was made by Polish Paskud - I don't know exactly when. But my solution is much faster.

Commercial purposes ? Hardly - there is no so much people interested.

[Petari]

More details, real HW capture here: http://atari.8bitchip.info/movpst.php

[petsasjim]

Hi PETARI,

1)""Great ! You can write without capitals too""
i like very much capitals even now.so in huge public places (lke youtube) i always prefer write with caps lock because i like it very much.now in forums its differrent.in some forums like "recorded amiga games" i ask to use caps lock and they let me use them,but my topics have few words (like longplay requests only).but i dont want to stress you because the previous reply i wrote was "really big" so........."better no caps lock" in some places like private forums with lots of discusions even i prefer caps.
2) i'm glad you use ramdisk in your first 2 videos.this think i said (ramdisk) just come to my mind,randomly,when you said "low res 4096 color video for atari ste" before i saw these videos you offered from here.
3)""Commercial purposes ? Hardly - there is no so much people interested.""
ok,for copyrights,you know.
4)""Cartridge IDE was made by Polish Paskud - I don't know exactly when. But my solution is much faster.""
certainly sure.
5)""On Falcon, 256 color playback is possible without bigger problems at 320x200""

is it possible in an overclocked 68060 falcon (always with your hardware,with your way) in these videos to have bigger "video resolution" than 320x200? (interlace or non interlace) (such 320x400*640x200*640x400 with at least 256 colors)?

6)kind a strange question : do you think that is it "software possible" and "hardware possible" to make this thing for "commodore amigas" too? [mostly for a500,a500plus (big left cartridge port)] and [a600,a1200 left pcmcia port] (deep inside me i believe-it is possible-but i talk only as a "user" without the knowledge).
7)from your knowledges,what is the best ever "cpu upgrade" for an "atari st/e" series only ( because i never owned a "big machine" - mega or TT)  official and unofficial (hack or overclock) (cpu upgrade) - and with which biggest "mhz"?

[Petari]

5. I did not focus on playback on Falcon. Certainly, normal Falcon is still too slow, even with DSP - for decompressing some modern codec.  And likely, even 68060 at some 100MHz is good only for mpg1 (VCD).
640x200 or more is too much. Such resolutions required P2 range CPU at 600MHz. 

What I do is to avoid decompression - then datarate goes very high. With more res and colors it goes very-very much, and no so fast disk transfers possible.

As I stated, all this is just little experimenting of what is possible. But I don't want to go too far with it. STE is good target platform. For Falcon, you should see existing solutions - like Mplayer.

6. I'm pretty much sure that something similar is possible on Amiga. All depends from how fast can read data from hard disk (CF card).

7. I really don't know much about. And not fan of them. As I see, there is many problem with them, limited SW compatibility. Prices are still high.  My goal is not to have some faster oldie - if want fast machine then turn on PC 
TT is fastest - thanks to 32MHz CPU, but bus in TT is still at 16MHz - it means that some complex code runs not much fasterthan on Falcon - 3D for instance.

[petsasjim]

nice,i understand.thank you for your time and your answers.
have a nice day.

[Cyprian]

TT is fastest - thanks to 32MHz CPU, but bus in TT is still at 16MHz - it means that some complex code runs not much fasterthan on Falcon - 3D for instance.

actually, term "16MHz bus" is really misleading because when we look at TT's nembech results we can see that it has more or less 2MHz bus for ST RAM and 3MHz bus for TT ram

[Petari]

actually, term "16MHz bus" is really misleading because when we look at TT's nembech results we can see that it has more or less 2MHz bus for ST RAM and 3MHz bus for TT ram

I would discuss little about it:  as I know, difference appears only at higher resolutions and more colors. And the reason is that video buffer is always in ST RAM. At ST resolutions no slowdown, but by higher ones bus can not feed both video and CPU, so CPU must sometimes to wait.
By TT RAM no such conflict, of course.  Try membench at different resolutions, and will see what I talk.
I was even on idea to execute some 3D code in TT RAM, for speed. But exactly, because above, and that 3D games work in ST low res there will be no speed gain.

[Petari]

Added some new videos and little speed blah on page:  http://atari.8bitchip.info/movpst.php

[Cyprian]

actually, term "16MHz bus" is really misleading because when we look at TT's nembech results we can see that it has more or less 2MHz bus for ST RAM and 3MHz bus for TT ram

I would discuss little about it:  as I know, difference appears only at higher resolutions and more colors. And the reason is that video buffer is always in ST RAM. At ST resolutions no slowdown, but by higher ones bus can not feed both video and CPU, so CPU must sometimes to wait.
By TT RAM no such conflict, of course.  Try membench at different resolutions, and will see what I talk.
I was even on idea to execute some 3D code in TT RAM, for speed. But exactly, because above, and that 3D games work in ST low res there will be no speed gain.

I wouldn't like to off topic this interesting dicussion.
16Mhz bus in TT, this is fine speed for 68030 with 32Mhz due to it needs two or more cycles for bus-mastering.
According to Profibuch, TT has the same ST-Ram timing (250ns) and access split as ST - even cycles for Shifter, odd for CPU. Therefore 68030 has access to ST-Ram every 500 ns (as in ST) and it is real bottleneck.
Regarding video resolution, there is no difference in Nembench's results between ST-Low and TT-Low.

[Petari]

There should be dependance of speed from resolution - when ST RAM is used. I don't know nembench - but you need to set code to run from ST RAM. And may do some tests with simple code full with mem transfers - then measure exec. time in differerent res. Then execute it with FastRAM flag set . I always believe most to own code 
I don't know exact timings of TT Fast RAM - so, you are right, I guess, considering bus timings. I actually repeated what saw on some pages about TT .