8BitChip Forum

Atari => Software => Topic started by: STmartin on 14-04-2011, 16:11:43

Title: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 14-04-2011, 16:11:43
Hi!

I have a problem with TOS/DOS compatible 2GB image (http://atari.8bitchip.info/DiskImgPP1.html), which i wrote into 2 GB SD card for my Satandisk. I can't copy anything from partition C to other partitions on Atari :( And I can't save gamex game states. What it might be, and how to repair it?
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Petari on 15-04-2011, 13:08:34
Obviously writing works not from some reason. Check first the most trivial thing: isn't write disabling small tab moved accidently into write disabled pos on SD card ?
If it is OK, then it is likely some incompatibility of Satandisk and your card. What is exact SD card brand and type ?
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 15-04-2011, 14:49:48
The card is unlocked. Writing is not disabled. My card is Integral 2 GB SD memory card (http://www.integralmemory.com/product/sd-card)
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Petari on 15-04-2011, 17:05:47
I checked 2GB file today with Satandisk attached to STE. Writing and copying to part E worked fine. Card is Kingston.
So, it seems that Integral and Satan don't understand each other.
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 15-04-2011, 17:45:28
What a shame :( I bought it yesterday for my Satan and it not works :(

PS: Copying single file worked well, but copying a folder with files is don't working
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Petari on 15-04-2011, 17:51:17
I saw some very poor quality SD cards, and even fake ones - marked as 4 GB, but only 2 GB, and that one died after 4-5 writings, btw.
I can only advice that avoid cheap and unknown brand.

Not much likely: your power supply may be too weak for Satandisk when it writes - then more power is required. But you'd need some voltage meter to check is there too much drop by writing.
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 15-04-2011, 17:54:48
My power supply is very old, but it works good. It works well with my Satan with 256 MB card partitioned with Hddriver. So probably it's something with this card.
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Anemos on 15-04-2011, 18:18:18
perhaps fake memory stick .. try buy one brand name.
Other think.. try to use other card reader to write the HD image.
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: munchy on 15-04-2011, 22:52:36
I have had success with sandisk,kingston and kodak cards.I Would stick with sandisk for now if at all possible.I had some problems with writing images originally but all eventually worked well with petaris drive image program.
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 16-04-2011, 12:17:07
OK, I will try it with another card. Thanks!

Regards
STmartin
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 16-04-2011, 20:31:02
Bad news :(

I wrote 2 GB image to the Kingston 2 GB card and writing isn't working properly too :( So it's problem in something else. How to solve this problem?

PS: I'm writing images under Win XP, and I'm using card reader mounted in Brother DCP-165C printer for it. And my Atari STE has 4 MB RAM and TOS 1.06
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Anemos on 17-04-2011, 21:08:52
ok,99% is card reader problem,(not supporting Drive-imaging program) have seen like that before..im using MicroSD card 2gb,4gb ect..with a small USB stick reader,and working perfect with Drive-imaging..
the default 3.5" deck multi reader on my PC is not working for this.
Test other type card reader.
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Petari on 18-04-2011, 12:19:24
This is interesting.  Maybe the problem is old firmware in Satandisk ? Jookie made some updates during time. But to change firmware you need some special cable and header (connector). I need to check some things, as how to read out current firmware version ...  Will back later ...
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 18-04-2011, 14:58:00
OK, I will wait for you. In the meantime I will buy another card reader and I will try to write this image with it.
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Petari on 19-04-2011, 14:20:45
Nothing so far about how to see Satandisk FW version.
It would be good to check is writing works with 1GB image file (with games, driver). It has different driver - basic ACSI and not ICD command set. If it will work, thin we will know that problem is with ICD command set support by writing.
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 21-04-2011, 12:44:42
I have checked 1 GB image and writing is very unstable. Sometimes it works, but usually it doesn't work. I have partitioned this card with Hddriver and writing works good. So it seems that my Atari has a problem with file system on this images. Any ideas how to solve this problem?
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Petari on 21-04-2011, 14:41:02
This happens when writing is generally unreliable. Hddriver then performs retries (when detects write failure), so finally it succeeds. I did not put retries in such cases in my driver. Actually, you are second who reported me such problem.  I would not say that Atari is problem for sure. It may be Satandisk or weak power supply. Maybe only slowing down write could help, bit I'm speed freak  :)
Can you try with some other power supply, which is stronger. Just to be sure in that ...
I can do something with driver, but it will take some time. Hardest part is how to make proper testings - I need to make somehow write unreliable, but not too much ...
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 22-04-2011, 12:05:30
I haven't got another stronger 9 V power supply, so I can't check it. But i'm not sure that it's power supply fault. When I try to copy a folder with some files using standard TOS copier, Atari reads only one folder (main folder, which i want to copy) with zero files and it doesn't write it. I tried to copy some files using Kobold utility, and it reads all files, but when it tried to write them on another partition it shows ,,writing error" or something like this. So it's probably something with driver. It may be too fast.
Could you do something with this driver? I don't want very speed copying. It can be slow, but it must work well :)

Regards
Martin
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Petari on 22-04-2011, 13:31:59
I think that I explained it all in previous post. And myself can not do everything. As said - write errors never happen by me. I tested driver with Satandisk, with 4 diverse cards, on ST, Mega ST, STE, Mega STE.
Still, we are not sure what is your exact problem. It is simplest to check power supply.
If I can not test changes in driver myself, then it is very troublesome and goes slow ...
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 28-04-2011, 14:53:13
Hi!

I have written 2 GB image using another card reader and another computer (laptop with Win7), and writing isn't working properly too. I did some tests:

1. Copying one folder from catalogue 1M on partition C: to partition D: - It doesn't work (zero copied files)
2. Copying folder 1M (with 111 folders in it) from partition C: to partition D: - It copies 6 folders from 111 folders.
3. Copying folder DISKUTIL from partition C: to partition D: - It works properly.

So It has a problem with big files and with files in subdirectory. Where is the problem?

PS: My power supply has 3.6W of power.
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Anemos on 28-04-2011, 21:36:11
oh i know what you mean..i have same problem some times.. i have the solution..
try to copy DIR,s from C to others partition with KK Commander !
The last version is the "KK Commander 1.4f "
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 28-04-2011, 21:41:56
OK, I will try it tommorow. Thanks :)!
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Anemos on 28-04-2011, 21:44:55
ye have same problem some times..dunno why.
The KK commander is cool,looks like old good Norton Commander for MsDOS.
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 28-04-2011, 21:50:18
OK! Thank you very much :)
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Petari on 29-04-2011, 15:09:17
I have written 2 GB image using another card reader and another computer (laptop with Win7), and writing isn't working properly too. I did some tests:
1. Copying one folder from catalogue 1M on partition C: to partition D: - It doesn't work (zero copied files)
2. Copying folder 1M (with 111 folders in it) from partition C: to partition D: - It copies 6 folders from 111 folders.
3. Copying folder DISKUTIL from partition C: to partition D: - It works properly.
So It has a problem with big files and with files in subdirectory. Where is the problem?
PS: My power supply has 3.6W of power.

It indicates exactly weak power. Problem by power suplies is that they can give more power for short time, but if load lasts longer, then voltage drops. And normally, it happens by longer files. With subdirectories is power load also longer, as there is more access - it needs more writes, reads.

I will try to perform some testings by adding resistor in line with power to Satandisk. But it will take one week minimum until I can post some updated driver with writing retries.
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 30-04-2011, 15:34:13
Results from writing tests under KK Commander:
1.Copying one folder from catalogue 1M on partition C: to partition D: - It copies a folder with some files, but not all files are copying.
2.Copying folder 1M (with 111 folders in it) from partition C: to partition D: - KK Commander displays following error: Out of internal memory. Please install Foldr100.PRG. I will test it with Foldr100.PRG in another time.
Edit: I did tests with FOLDR100.PRG patch, and KKCommander copied a folder with most files, but some files didn't copied properly (They had 0 bytes or they had smaller size than original file)
3.Copying folder DISKUTIL from partition C: to partition D: - It works properly.
4.Copying folder from floppy to partit. C: - It works properly. 

So copying with KK Commander works better than with standard TOS copier, but still it isn't ideal.

Petari: OK, I will wait for results of tests with resistor and for updated driver.

Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Petari on 05-05-2011, 13:58:41
I made test driver, 2 versions :  http://atari.8bitchip.info/USA_98T.ZIP
I couldn't get UltraSatan or Satan to have writing problems. With lower power voltage it just stopped to work complete - reading too.
But found some Atari source files where some DMA problems where described. So, hopefully we can solve this.  Let me know testing results, for both versions. Just run programs with Satan holding SD card with TOS/DOS compatible partitions (2GB or 1GB image) attached and restart machine. Then new driver will autoboot - versions will be shown as 0.98d or 0.98e  .
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 05-05-2011, 17:43:09
I've tested these drivers and copying doesn't work properly too. The same problems like with standard driver.
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 16-05-2011, 21:00:50
Any news :) ?
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Petari on 17-05-2011, 13:51:12
I have now one TT by me - and it is first time that I have errors by writing with Satandisk. So, it may help to track down the problem. But may be that on TT problem is not exactly the same ... Will see. I will work on it during oncoming weekend.
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 27-05-2011, 15:30:55
Hi!

And what? Did you do something with this problem?
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Petari on 28-05-2011, 12:48:19
Sorry, it goes harder than I thought. On TT is many thing very different. I need to do lots of changes and testings.
Will inform when I have some results.
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 28-05-2011, 14:32:03
OK, I understand. I will wait for results.
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: STmartin on 13-06-2011, 15:40:00
Any news after 16 days? :)
Title: Re: Problem with TOS/DOS compatible hard disk image
Post by: Petari on 14-06-2011, 14:13:48
No progress so far. I don't know what exactly is happening, but even Hddriver works sometimes bad with TT. Maybe heat is the culprit, maybe something other... Not easy thing. Please be patient.  I will go now on Heimdall - testing it and make TT compatible v.